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This is a postcard I bought a while back. On the back it says it was taken at camp (Buddon?) during a fortnight's training, sent from Kirkwall by a C S Smith to a Miss A M Yorston in Nova Scotia in 1906. He is in the picture. Wherever it is it was a very sunny day.
Picture added on 28 March 2012 at 11:34
Can this really be a pc from as early as 1906? All but one of the men are wearing fore-and-aft field service caps, often called 'forage caps' or, more properly, 'side caps', and I can't recall seeing any pre-WW1 photos showing men wearing those. I haven't been able to determine exactly when that pattern of headdress was introduced - so someone better informed will probably set us straight - but I get the 'feel' of a much later date from this photo.
Added by Ian Hourston on 28 March 2012
Ian
I'll scan the other side if that would convince you, the postmark is crystal clear.
I'll scan the other side if that would convince you, the postmark is crystal clear.
Added by Jim Eunson on 28 March 2012
I get that feeling too Ian. And the "whites" would suggest warmer climes - India or South Africa perhaps?
Added by Sandy on 28 March 2012
Should have said 'all but two of the men'. Sorry.
Added by Ian Hourston on 28 March 2012
There is a Barry Buddon training Camp at Carnoustie, Angus.
Added by Angus Main on 28 March 2012
I thought it looked like somewhere like India as well initially, but it can't be, they were at camp for a fortnight's training.
Added by Jim Eunson on 29 March 2012
According to Wikepedia, the Side Cap has been on the go in various forms since the 1890s. The Scottish "Glengarry" springs to mind.
Added by Sandy on 29 March 2012
This style of headdress would certainly have been in use in 1906 as I have found several photographs, dated from the late 1880's, showing soldiers from a variety of regiments wearing the same type of head gear.
Added by Eddy Ross on 29 March 2012
Jim having now shown us the other side of the card, the point is proved. Just wanted to add, Angus, that I had a fornight's camp at Barry Buddon in 1948 as an Army Cadet Force sergeant. Peaked too early I think - all downhill since.
Added by Ian Hourston on 29 March 2012
Yes Eddy, I've found a few now, but too late! Maybe I was influenced by the fact that my father never referred to anyone wearing the side cap in WW1, though he wore one himself in WW2 (Middlesex Regt).
Whenever that regt's name crops up (and the talk in Stromness is of little else) I'm reminded of the story my dad used to tell about the Scots troops' arrival in France in WW1. A Frenchwoman remarked to a friend, "They can't be men because they're wearing skirts!" The friend replied, "Well they can't be women because they've got moustaches." The women gave it a moment's thought, then agreed, "Eh bien - the Middle-sex regiment". When he first related this elderly joke, my dad had no thought of winding-up in that regt himself, having been in kilted regiments in WW1. (Which probably explains why he never spoke of side caps.)
Whenever that regt's name crops up (and the talk in Stromness is of little else) I'm reminded of the story my dad used to tell about the Scots troops' arrival in France in WW1. A Frenchwoman remarked to a friend, "They can't be men because they're wearing skirts!" The friend replied, "Well they can't be women because they've got moustaches." The women gave it a moment's thought, then agreed, "Eh bien - the Middle-sex regiment". When he first related this elderly joke, my dad had no thought of winding-up in that regt himself, having been in kilted regiments in WW1. (Which probably explains why he never spoke of side caps.)
Added by Ian Hourston on 30 March 2012
Sergeant D. Rollo's "History of the Orkney and Shetland Volunteers and Territorials", published 1958 has it that, "1st Orkney Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers) camped at Buddon in 1906. Lieutenant-Colonel T. Smith Peace had taken over command from Colonel Richard Bailey and inter- company competitions were held for smartness,camp duties and for gunnery,the training was carried out on five-inch breech loading guns which were fired at towed targets".
The C.S. Smith who I think is featured on the postcard died in 1943, he was married in 1910 to Evelyn Shearer from Kirkwall who d1ed in 1970.
The C.S. Smith who I think is featured on the postcard died in 1943, he was married in 1910 to Evelyn Shearer from Kirkwall who d1ed in 1970.
Added by Nicol Manson on 30 March 2012
The white clothing was worn by the men of 1st O.R.G.A. during training in the proper procedures when handling explosive material whilst at camp in Barry Buddon. Protective calico clothing and galoshes were worn to reduce the risk of explosions caused by sparks when handling and filling shells and cartridges with gunpowder.They would not normally have been allowed to wear their "whites" outside of the Cartridge Room, preventing the risk of any loose gunpowder being taken out in their clothing from this highly dangerous area. The Field Service cap with its badge and buttons would not have been worn with "whites",and perhaps the Bush or Slouch Hat worn by the two N.C.O.s in picture 26294, would have been adopted for use. No hobnail boots and no metal buttons on their jackets confirm for me that these men were engaged in some kind of shell handling activity in the Cartridge Store at Barry Buddon in 1906, and not in the cook-house as has been suggested.
Added by Nicol Manson on 31 March 2012
I hope the chap on the left wasn't permitted his pipe and matches anywhere on his person.
Added by Neil Johnstone on 31 March 2012
This is dead on, the explosive thing, We are talking nitros. Dodgy. Can't say more. Ex RAOC.
Added by Sandy on 01 April 2012
I am not sure what Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment your Father served in during WW2 Ian. My Father and two of his brothers were with the Seaforths in North Africa, Sicily, and North West Europe, part of the 51st (Highland) Division.The 51st had valiant service from 1/7th Battalion Middlesex Regiment (Machine Gunners). Over the three major victorious campaigns that the 51st were involved in, the 1/7 Middlesex suffered 588 casualties, 150 killed, 414 wounded, and 14 missing. WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.
Added by Nicol Manson on 01 April 2012
Yes Neil, I was hoping he wouldn't drop his ash in the soup or something; a glowing dottle in the high explosive would be slightly more serious.
As regards your interesting comment Nicol, I can't enlighten you much about my father's service with the Middx Regt. He was in his 50th year of life when 'recalled to the colours' in 1939, just before war was declared, so too old for frontline service. He served throughout WW2 in the rank of Major, in various parts of England and latterly in Wales.
In WW1 he had risen from Private (in the London Scottish) to Captain (in the Argyll & Suthld Hldrs) picking up two wounds, MC & Bar and a 'Mention' along the way. But, like many of his contemporaries, he never talked about it, except with others who'd been through trench warfare on the Western Front. (He'd have answered his sons' questions but I don't think we knew what to ask, and anyway the more recent world war was uppermost in our minds as kids.)
As regards your interesting comment Nicol, I can't enlighten you much about my father's service with the Middx Regt. He was in his 50th year of life when 'recalled to the colours' in 1939, just before war was declared, so too old for frontline service. He served throughout WW2 in the rank of Major, in various parts of England and latterly in Wales.
In WW1 he had risen from Private (in the London Scottish) to Captain (in the Argyll & Suthld Hldrs) picking up two wounds, MC & Bar and a 'Mention' along the way. But, like many of his contemporaries, he never talked about it, except with others who'd been through trench warfare on the Western Front. (He'd have answered his sons' questions but I don't think we knew what to ask, and anyway the more recent world war was uppermost in our minds as kids.)
Added by Ian Hourston on 01 April 2012
The very thoughts I had Neil, on first seeing picture #26294, which by the way,is quite a rare image of a Volunteer Artillery Regiment, dressed as seen, great find Jim. Take cover Sandy!!**
Added by Nicol Manson on 01 April 2012
Know where your coming from as far as asking goes Ian, I did not ask my Father until it was too late.
You will know that your Father will be remembered as a true patriot in the defence of our country, a very brave man.
You will know that your Father will be remembered as a true patriot in the defence of our country, a very brave man.
Added by Nicol Manson on 02 April 2012
Thanks Nicol. Don't think my father would have recognised himself in your description, but it's true enough, as I'm sure it was in your Dad's case too. Wish I could say 'Like father, like son' but luckily for me the opportunity to find out hasn't arisen.
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Added by Ian Hourston on 03 April 2012