Orkney Image Library

Does anyone know any information for the Sinclair Mowat in this picture. I have a Sinclair Mowat Stout in my family tree, whose name changed to Sinclair Mowat when his father died. The Sinclair Mowat in my family tree was born in 1904 and died in 1957 in Malsetter Walls.
William Sinclair

Spoke to Sinclair Mowat's nephew Ian McFadyen and he told me that some members of the family changed their names from Stout to Mowat. He did not know why and Sinclair would still be Stout on his death certificate.
The members of that family that I knew were Sinclair, Charles, Eric,and Chrissie- dont know if there were any others.

Sinclair had a bad leg as he was run over by a dispatch rider during the war in the black out. He fished all his life and crewed on the Lifeboat. He and Eric lived at Inner Haven, Brims. The Bill Mowat also in the photograph would have been their father I think?.
Its all a bit confusing!. Help Fred!!.

The information I have is as follows.
Sinclair's parents were William Mowat Stout and Barbara Sinclair. Barbara's parents were John (2nd great Grandfather) Sinclair and his second wife Jane Davidson. William's birth was registered as Illegitimate, his parents were Sutherland Stout and Helen Mowat Swanston. All the children had Mowat as a middle name. It would be interesting to know why they all dropped their Stout Surname, even their father William. Sinclair registered his fathers death and had signed as Sinclair Mowat. They may have dropped the Stout name after Sutherland had died.

Yes, Bill Mowat was the father of the family mentioned above. He was actually the son of Sutherland Stout, who was the younger brother of Benjamin Stout the Longhope lifeboat coxwain. Sutherland and Bills mother must have split up, because Sutherland went on to marry a Maggie Smith and they both died in Stromness, he in the 1890's and she in the 1920's. They had quite a big family, some lost at sea and another killed in world war one. The last one that I know of (Charles). died at John Street Stromness about 1947.
Bill Mowat was definately born Stout and I'm sure Sinclair was as well, but Bill changed his and Sinclair's name later as far as I know.

William,
Bill Mowat's mother was Helen Mowat Swanson and I am sure that she was also the mother of Coxwain Jake Swanson of the Longhope lifeboat and William Swanson ,the captain of the "St Ola" from 1912 until 1943.
Bill Mowat's wife was Barbara C Sinclair and I think, that she came from South Ronaldsay.That's probably your connection.

Hi Fred

Yes my Sinclair line is the Eastside Sinclair's, a strange lot, not fond of publicity as no pictures and only known to exist because they are in the Census. The Mowat line would have been cousins of mine, through Barbara Sinclair, she died in 1938 in Selwick. I just wish my Sinclair's were not camera shy, as I would like to know what they looked like. I am supposed to be the spitting image of my Grandfather, who was said to be the spitting image of his father John Sinclair born in 1862 in Herston.

Was it Maurice that was lost at the creels of the same family,? was he charley's son,? was there one of them in the Broughty Ferry lifeboat,? or am I all mixed up here....

Charlie Mowat was the first mechanic of the Aith lifeboat in Shetland when the K.T.J.S. went up there from Longhope to open the station. He was for many years after that, mechanic of the Montrose lifeboat. Maurice,his son was indeed sadly lost whilst at the creels, shortly after the lifeboat disaster.

Thanks Fred, remembered once you jogged the memory that it was indeed Montrose lifeboat Charlie was in, I can remember Sincair, and Eric as well , great memories going back over them all..

I can contribute nothing to the debate about names etc, but I do wonder who took this picture. A fine photographer. Just compare this with some of the much more 'modern' blurred, lopsided group photos that appear.

Interesting discussion. I've recently done some research on folk in listed in the 1861 census in North Walls and Brims, tracing them forward to 1871, and came across Helen Swanston and Sutherland Stout. From my notes, they appeared before the Kirk Session in 1866 for having a child outside marriage, their second child outside marriage. By 1871, Sutherland Stout had married Mary Smith (from Manclett - was she known as Maggie? She seems to be called Isabella in the 1871 census to add to confusion)and master of the Otter, in Inverness at 1871 census time. (Off subject but any leads on what happened to Mary's brothers William and Nathaniel and sister Clara?) As for Helen, I think she was probably in Folkestone, Kent. There is an Ellen Swanson, of the right age, born Orkney, working as a cook to Gilbert Traill and family (he was also born in Orkney). Also listed is a Margaret Swanson, aged 36, a sister I think. Intriguingly different paths, though Helen/Ellen was back in Orkney by 1881, an unemployed domestic servant living with her brother, sister and 16 year old John Swanston - her son probably. Both boys (William Mowat Swanston and John) were with their Swanston grandparents in the 1871 census. Hope this is useful information for someone!

Jane,
I got it wrong with Sutherland Stouts wifes name. She was indeed Isabella Smith and not Maggie. The gravestone is in Stromness cemetery and reads. "Erected in loving memory of Sutherland Stout died 23July 1898 aged 64. His wife Isabella Smith died 13 July 1930 aged 83. Their children: James lost at sea 17 Nov. 1893 aged 22; Alexander lost at sea 16 Nov. 1910 aged 34: William, killed in action off Dover 26 Oct. 1916 aged 41; 4 children died in infancy. There was at least one more namely Charles, who died at John Street Stromness about 1947.
I notice that Isabella was master of the "Otter" at Inverness in the 1871 census. I presume that the "Otter" was a ship of some kind and it would have been most unusual for a woman to be master in those days.
I was not aware that there were Smiths in Manclett in 1871. I always assumed that the Sutherlands were there over centuries.
As far as I am aware, Jake Swanson( Lifeboat coxwain)and William Swanson ( master of the St. Ola)were half brothers of Bill Mowat and I assume that they were younger than him. I remember Jake ( He died 1939/1940)and William died in Stromness during world war two.
I dont know what happened to Isabella's brothers and sister, but would be interested to know, if anyone out there has some info.
Johnny Pottinger will have a lot of info. on the Swanson family, as he is a decendant.

Sorry Johnny Pottinger is a descendant of the Swanson family and not a decendant.

Little did I know when I asked the original question that so much information would have come forward, a big thanks to all who have contributed so far.
I keep seeing the name Eric appear, I know nothing of an Eric, can anyone provide details of him please. The children I have are: John Bernard Mowat Stout, Charles Alexander Mowat Stout, Sinclair Mowat Stout and Christina Davidson Mowat Stout.

Willie Sinclair

This has been a fasinating discussion on the lives of this family who I grow up hearing the names of like Willdac Mowat, Jake Swanson,Benjie Stout, and so on!

Fred, Jane and William, I congratulate you all on your intrest and your reserch into these people and their lives, I doubt anyone will be be the slightest bit interested in my time on this earth but who knows?? Anyway well done to you and thank you all, you should be on a whacking good salary for reserch into our Orcadian Ancestory!!.

Sorry - my original message was a bit unclear: it was Sutherland Stout himself who was the master of the Otter (with a crew of three Orcadians, two from Longhope)and his wife was Isabella though the marriage register index has Mary.

I've done a quick check of Familysearch.org (not a primary source so care needed but it is free) and found William Mowat Stout or Swanson born 1861 to Sutherland Stout and Helen Mowat Swanson
and John Swanson born 1864 to Hellen M Swanson with no father's name (this birth is the one linked to my Kirk Session note above). Skimming the censuses, John/Jake seems to have always been Swanson but in the 1891 census Bill is listed as William Mowat and John is John S Swanson (could the S have been Stout??). Anyway, it's been fascinating for me to discover the descendants of these people as I remember Eric Mowat and the brilliant (literally) mackerel hooks he made for my father and Lil, Charlie's widow, visited us regularly.


The Swanson George) who was captain of the St Ola is from a different family. Found a post by Bruce Gorie with the information on Rootsweb - archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/sct-caithness/2004-04/1081969659

Final note on the Smiths of Manclett. William Smith, aged 19, is farm overseer there in the 1861 census living with his mother Ann (née Cantley), brothers and sisters, his father William having died the previous November. I think they were related to the Smiths of the Smiddy. By 1871, Anne and her son Charles are in Brims, two other sons James and Robert are probably farm servants elsewhere on the island, Robina is a servant in Stromness but I could find no trace of William, Nathan(iel) or Clara. Possibly emigrated following Smith cousins from Fishhouse?

Jane,
That is interesting. I knew that Bill Mowat and John( Jake )Swanson were half brothers and I thought that George the captain of the " Ola" was another . You are probably correct in your assumption that the S in Jake's name was Stout, as you stated earlier that Sutherland and Helen appeared before the Kirk session in 1866 for having two children out of wedlock. This must have gone down like concrete seaboot in 1866. However, it obviously did not bother Benjamin Stout( Sutherland's brother),as Bill Mowat was second coxwain of the lifeboat for many years,whilst he was coxwain and Jake Swanson succeeded him in the job. The names Bill Mowat and Jake Swanson were very much revered in Brims when I was a boy and rightly so. My grandmother was a daughter of Benjamin Stout, so she would have been a 1st. cousin of Bill and Jake. Surprisingly, I was not aware of this, until quite recent times,but I am very happy to know that I am a relative.
One last thing. George Swanson of the "Ola" must have come from Brims and been related to Jake. I remember the old men speaking about it,but cannot remember the relationship.
Willie,
Eric Mowat was the youngest of the family. He was a fisherman most of his life, excepting the war years when he was down on the Solent with his boat ( " Eileen I think )on charter to the navy. After the war, he fished for many years with his fathers old boat the " Jesabell". He married a Mowat woman from Gramesay, but had no children. I cannot recall the year of their deaths, but John Budge will know.
Eric was 2nd. coxwain of the Longhope lifeboat for many years, succeeding his brother Sinclair.

Bill Mowat was born William Mowat Stout, He used William Mowat Stout on his marriage registration even though Sutherland was deceased at this time, he was named as William Mowat Stout on his death registry, Sinclair registered his fathers death giving his name as Sinclair Mowat, however on the family gravestone in Walls it is William Mowat. Perhaps it was the children of William and Barbara that chose to drop the Stout part of the name.

In loving memory of our dear father WILLIAM MOWAT who died at the Haven, Brims 16th Oct 1934 aged 72 years. Also our dear mother BARBARA SINCLAIR who died 17th Nov 1938 aged 65 years and our uncle JOHN SWANSON who died at Whitehouse, Brims 16th Oct 1939 aged 75 years. Also EDWARD LAUGHTON beloved husband of CHRISTINA MOWAT who died 18th June 1942 aged 35 years. Erected by the family.

Longhope lifeboat

Coxswain:- Benjamin Stout 1874 - 1900
1891 Silver medal awarded to Coxswain Benjamin Stout in recognition of his gallantry on 30 March in connection with the s.s. 'Victoria' of Sunderland. Eleven of the rescued crew were Germans and the Emperor of Germany presented a gold watch to the Coxswain and £24 to the crew of the lifeboat.
1900 Silver Second-Service Clasp awarded to Coxswain Benjamin Stout on his retirement.

Coxswain:- John Swanson 1900 - 1934
1930 Silver medal awarded to Coxswain John Swanson for the rescue of crew of nine of the Aberdeen steam trawler 'Braconmoor' which went ashore on Tor Ness Point of 5 January. It was a rescue in very difficult circumstances carried out with skill and gallantry.

1932 Silver Second-Service Clasp awarded to Coxswain John Swanson for the rescue of eight of the crew of the trawler 'Dorbie' of Hull wrecked at Tor Ness on 9 January. It was a dangerous and trying service skilfully and gallantly carried out.
The Institution's Thanks on Vellum was awarded to Mr William Sutherland who retired after serving since 1922 as the honorary secretary at Longhope. During those 24 years the Longhope Lifeboat had rescued 272 lives. In 1932 Mr Sutherland was awarded the Institution's inscribed binoculars and in the same year he won an inscribed barometer for his energy and initiative in directing a very difficult and dangerous service when the lifeboat rescued the crew of the Hull trawler 'Dorbie'. Mr Sutherland was succeeded as honorary secretary by his daughter, Miss M Sutherland.

Does anyone know the family connections of the Johnstons in the picture here..I know George and his son, but just want to confirm the families of the others..any help

Richard Johnston

Actually, I still need to confirm George and his son George Jr's family connections too.....I want to make sure I have them identified correctly

Richard

George Johnston was my grandfather and therefor George Jnr was my uncle.

Richard,

Fred Johnston and Bob Johnston were the two youngest sons of Alec Johnston ( also in the picture). George Johnston and young George were father and son.

My father-in-law was called William Stout and we are trying to trace some of his relations. Sutherland Stout comes in to it.
Loved to read about other folks families. We were up in Stromness a few years back and a very kind lady gave us some informations. Unfortunately we have lost the photo of Sutherlands Stout's grave.

Sutherland Stout Snr. was the younger brother of Benjamin Stout the first coxwain of the Longhope lifeboat. Sutherland was my great-grand uncle. I can easily get a photograph of his grave, if you so wish.

Hi Fred, thanks for your offer regarding a photo of a grave. We have come accross it and also one of a Mrs C Stout Havelock Cottage North End Stromness along with Uncle Charlie,Aunt Carrie,Aunt Jeannie. George Rendell, Sinclair, Mag & uncle J. Isabella Mowat Smith, Great Granny 15 John Street Stromness. Charles Robert Smith Stout. Why would the family change their names from Stout to Mowat? Great to read all the news Thanks Charlotte

Hi Fred

I would be interested in any gravestone photographs of William Mowat Stout and Barbara Sinclair and family, if possible. Barbara was my Great Grandaunt and their children first cousins

Uncle Charlie may be Charles Smith, brother of Isabella, wife of Sutherland Stout. I know he was in Brims in the 1871 census but have not tried to trace him after than. Isabella Mowat Smith - she might be the grandmother of Isabella, wife of Sutherland. She died in 1891 aged 90 and her maiden name was Mowat. Or could be another relation named after granny. Might be able to help a little more if you have more details. (I'm not related but have done some work on North Walls and Brims folk in 1861 and 1871 censuses)

Charlotte, are you a descendant ot Sutherland Stout's son William? William, I live in Stromness, but can easily take a photo of William Mowat's grave, the next time I go to Longhope. That is, if John Budge does not do it before- hand. I surmise that William changed his name to Mowat, because Sutherland left his mother and married Isabella Smith, although I cannot be sure of this. Why Mowat, when his mothers name was Helen Swanson?.

Hi Fred we my son and I are quite confused regarding how many Sutherland Stouts there was. thats interesting the bit about why they would change their names possibly a family upset? strange though. My husband always thought some of his ancestors came from the Fair Isles, but we haven't come accross any onfo to back this up yet. Nice of you to try and help us. My son does most of the trawling I get confused with all the different dates. The Sutherland Stout seems to be causing a bit of a hassle, weddings etc. Cheers

Hi Fred

That would be much appreciated. It is strange why John had the surname Swanson/Swanston, I can only assume that by that time his mother was aware that Sutherland was not going to marry her. My 2x Great Grandfather John Sinclair went to live with William and Barbara some time after 1909 moving from Herston. He died in Walls in 1916 and I think he may be buried there, though I have no record of it.

Charlotte, there were at least two Sutherland Stout's in our family. The one we are discussing here was Benjamin Stout's younger brother, but Benjamin also had a son called Sutherland. He settled in Illinois, after sailing on Lake Michigan for many years. He married a girl from North Walls there and they had quite a large family, many who still live in the Elgin area. Most of his brothers and sisters emigrated to Illinois also and strangely enough, all of them married people with Orkney connections. The Stout's,in all probability originated in the Fair Isle, but they lived in Brims for as long back as the census go.

Message for Fred Johnston - I'd be interested in any more info on Sutherland Stout Jnr (son of Benjamin and nephew of Sutherland Senior)as he was one of my 1861 census group. Long term project is to trace them all through as many censuses as I can. Just use the email address below. Many thanks.

The late John Cromarty who died at Little Wards Longhope around the 1970s was brought up in Brims as one of the Mowat- Swanson family at the Haven or White House? although born in I think Herston South Ronaldsay his parents may have died and he was taken to Brims to be brought up by relitives there.I wonder if the conection would have been through the Sinclair side?.

I sent you an e.mail Jane. Hope I have the address correct.

Hi John

If you can give me some more information on this John Cromarty I will see what I have. I would not be surprised about a link with John to my Sinclair line.

Willie

Found a Grave stone in Ousna, John (Jake?) Swanson died 16th Oct 1939 also Barbra Sinclair 17th Nov 1938 any good??.
Also saw a stone to What I think would be Benjie Stout but it was getting to dark to read it and now I cant seem to find it again,I will yet!!.

Hi John
Yes this Barbara Sinclair was the daughter of my Grt Grt Grandad John Sinclair and his wife Jane Davidson. She is the one who married William Mowat Stout.

Did you manage to get a photograph????

Orkney Family History Society website has a nice area for members where you can search transcriptions of gravestones by surname and then graveyard. Includes Ousna (Osmundwall) and St John's (hardcopy for both, including photos is in the Orkney Room, Orkney Library). Transcript confirms the Benjamin Stout grave though the transcript wording is a little odd - Erected by HARRIET ROBERTSON beloved wife of BENJAMIN STOUT who died at Brims, Longhope 5th June 1904 aged 67 years. Also their infant children. Also the above BENJAMIN STOUT died 6th Sep 1911 aged 81 years. He giveth his beloved sleep

I am reliably informed by my father and grandfather (both Benjamin Stout) that we are descendents of Benjamin Stout (Sutherlands Brother maybe ?). My father has the lifeboat medals my great grandfather was honoured with, my mother wears a small medal on a necklace to this day. I will talk to my father to see if i can contribute any further from our side.

For John Budge
Re the question about the John Cromarty you mentioned. There was a John Cromarty born 1888 living in Herston in 1901, I wonder if this was him. If so I have interesting information about him worked out by Lisa Conrad

For Fred Johnston-

I am so glad that I found this website! I am a great granddaughter of the Sutherland Stout who settled in Illinois and you are correct. Much of the family still lives out in the Elgin/Kane County area. This Sutherland Stout married Janeabella Watters who was born in Orphir. Most all of the relatives on my mom's side of the family had Orkney roots. I am researching now, as we are planning a trip to Orkney this summer.

For Willie Sinclair - yes Willie I would think you have my old pal in your sights, unfortunatly I dont know much of his life before his upbringing in Brims. As I have said John was a fine man who had a great sense of fun and was great company and very good tae bairns, aye had time tae entertain youg anes.

John was married to Robina Fiddler who died 1950 they had two daughters and John died in the early 1970s.

Hi John

On John and Robina's marriage registry it says "LITTLE BUTTS" Walls. Can you tell me where abouts this is, as if I Google it, Google thinks I am looking for a porn site. (Honestly)

[I'm slightly concerned what that name is going to do to our contextual advertising from Google! - Steven]

For Mary Larson,
I am a grandson of Mary Alice Stout, who was the youngest sister of Sutherland and one of the three, who did not emigrate to Illinois. I stopped by Hampshire and Elgin on a drive across the USA in 2001 and met Art & Shirley Getezlman and also Margaret Freeman and her daughter Judy.
Would be interested in hearing from you, before you come over.

William you are certainly on the right track with John and Robina they did indeed live at "Little Butts" or the "Peedie Butts" as we would know it and is quite close to the Kirk Yard on the shore of "Ousna Bay". John moved to live beside his daughter Winnie, at Little Wards Farm after "Beena" died. Winnie now lives at The Glebe in Longhope and is a widow since the passing of her husband Malcom Robertson, John and Robina,s other daughter Isobel, died some years ago she lived in East Linton each of them had two sons sadly both there younger sons were killed at a young age .

What's wrong with advertising small tubs of ice-cream Steven?
(To be honest, I'd have preferred 'Snakehips' if it had been my marriage certificate.)

James Stout is my 4x great grandfather, and I found a tree of his descendants at www.scotstout.com/trees. Many of the people mentioned here are recorded on that site

We have the silver cup presented to Jocky Robertson. We found it when clearing my in-laws house a few years ago. Lydia-Ann Robertson (late of the shop at 37 Victoria St Kirkwall) ended her days in the care of my in-laws so we presume she had the cup. I'm not sure what her relationship was to Jocky Robertson was though. I think she died mid 1970's and was a very old lady then

Irene, that cup would be the one presented to Jocky Robertson from King Gustav of Sweden for his part in the rescue of 8 of the crew of the S.S. " Citos " in 1923. I remember Jocky fine.

For Fred Johnston...

I am so sorry that I did not see your follow up post to my comments until this week. It would have been wonderful to have had the opportunity to visit with you when we were there. My mom is Shirley's younger sister. Uncle Art passed away in 2009 and Auntie Shirl just passed away this past spring after a long illness. She went downhill rather quickly after Uncle Art died. My mom said that she (Shirley) and their cousin, Bob Stout (Ray's son) were the two main keepers of the family knowledge. Unfortunately, both have since passed away and now it seems as though I am the only one from my generation with any interest in learning more about our family's history. We loved Orkney and I will definitely be back someday. Until then, I'd love to stay in touch with you. Have a Merry Christmas!

For Mary Larson.

Hi Mary, sorry we missed you during your visit to Orkney. Will send you my e.mail address, so that you can contact me at any time.

Sorry Mary, I did not notice that I had not disclosed my name in my previous message.

To tie up a loose end, John Cromarty's stepmother was Margaret Johnston (née Swans(t)on) sister of Helen who was the mother of John (Jake) and William, lifeboat crew members. Both Margaret and John's father, another John, died when he was very young. Hence the move to Brims and his stepmother's family I guess.

Hi, my partner worked on a creel boat (out of Longhope or Hoy) in the mid-90s (poss 95, 96) and tells me that just after she left the boat, it was lost with all hands. She knew the captain very well and his name was Richard Mowat. She cannot, for the life of her, remember the name of the boat. I'm not able to find any information on this boat and so just wondered if anyone remembers this event and can give me more information (or where to look). And if anyone knows any news about how the families coped with the aftermath of this loss and how they are doing now. She would be very interested to know how they are all doing. Thanks for any info remembered. Tony

Hello Tony I remember a girl working with Richard on the "Pentland Spray", yes poor Richard was lost along with his crewman John Rosie . The boat went down and nothing was found of it nor the two men . It was thought the boat was overloaded . I was with the Lifeboat at the time and indeed it was a sad affair devastating Richards family .