Orkney Image Library

<< back
Hatston WWII
The Orkney Image Library

Help us get organised! If we haven't correctly identified which area this picture is best listed under, please select it below and click Done!

view a random pic
Hatston WWII

A little quarry in the cliff face just north of Hatston Slip. It must have bee used for shooting practice during WWII. When I was peedie, no yesterday, I used to dig lead bullets out of the sandbank at the north end.
Picture added on 23 August 2007
Comments:
I have an old geological map that shows this area as a rifle range. And I also used to find bullet shells at the south end and bullet tips at the north side. Boys will be boys.
Added by Lyndon on 16 October 2007
Lyndon tells me that his map is dated 1932. I now doubt if this would have been a military range. It would have been too short for .303 calibre shooting. In my (limited) experience, short ranges were used (called "representative") using small targets and .22 calibre. The shell cases that Lyndon and I found were all .303. Was there a local Rifle Club using .303 at this location before WWII?
Added by Sandy on 21 October 2007
Sandy, if you navigate to the 1882 map of the area, on this site-
(click here) -you'll find the 'rifle range', 'flag staff' and 'targets' noted.

Added by Dave Smith on 22 October 2007
Great stuff Dave. Thanks. These maps are super
Added by Sandy on 23 October 2007
Also noted on the 1882 map after 'rifle range' is '(carbine)'. I think that's a foot soldier's short rifle. That would have been on the lands of Grain Farm - used by the local volunteers for training?
Added by Karl Cooper on 23 October 2007
Hi Sandy, I also found many bullets there when I stayed there in the late 50's.
Added by Neil Johnstone on 30 October 2007
We did the same as kids in the early 1980's, there must have been a lot of ammo used on the site!
Added by Craig Taylor on 31 October 2007
The Robert Rendall article I quoted from in a comment on picture #594 also states:

'Every evening in summer townsfolk went out the Ayre and, entering it may be by “the first gate, ” idled as far as “the bull’s eye, ” or perhaps paused to lean on the wall surrounding the old quarry and watch the boats in the bay. That same old quarry was a resort of venturesome boys, who loved to clamber up among the yachts wintered there, boats familiar to every Kirkwallian and known affectionately by their owners’ names: “Peace’s yacht, ” “Groat’s yacht” and the like. Out at the bull’s eye (the old shooting target of the Volunteers) was a small muddy stream where we boys, when tired of building piers on the foreshore or of looking for shore-crabs, caught “eelicks.” Older citizens secured a coveted place on the few wooden seats along the edge of the grassy banks.'

Added by Paul Sutherland on 01 November 2007
Time for a boring discourse on old military rifle cartridges.

British military cartridge cases are dated on the base so you should be able to find the earliest year at which a specific round could have been fired.

'Carbines' were short rifles carried by artillerymen for close defence of their gun positions. From their formation on 1st May 1860 until WW-1 Kirkwall's Artillery Volunteers were coast or 'garrison' artillery. The carbines issued would initially have been Enfield muzzzle loaders in .577 calibre, followed by Snider breech loading conversions of same in .577 cal, then Martini-Henrys in .577-450 (firing .450 cal bullets) and, perhaps, finally Martini-Metford or Martini-Enfield conversions in .303 (.303 Lee Enfield carbines existed from the 1890s but were scarce and not generally issued to Volunteers). The idea of giving artillerymen carbines was done away with when the whole of the British Armed forces began to standardise on the Short Lee Enfield in the early 1900s but Orkney's RGA may well have kept single shot carbines until WW-1 or subsequent dissolution (I'd love to see any photos of Orkney Artillery Volunteers).

.577 and .577-450 bullets are lead or lead alloy and unjacketed. .303 bullets are jacketed. From 1888 until 1910 a variety of round-nosed bullets were standard, but, from 1910 the pointed Mk7 bullet was employed. This was standard until the .303 was replaced by 7.62 NATO in the late 50s. Some round nosed ball would still have been in use for quite a while afer 1910, but remaining stocks would have been rapidly used up early in WW-1.

Given the far higher levels of rifle ownership pre 1920 and its close proximity to Kirkwall, it is entirely possible that the range saw significant civilian use - you could therefore find bullets of non military calibre or configuration, or obsolete military ones used long after they left service (just to confuse matters).

I hope the above helps date the range.

Some source material:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini-Henry
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini-Enfield
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snider-Enfield
www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/volmil-scotland/varty/430orzt.htm





Added by Chris on 10 January 2008
Click to View This pic, elsewhere on the site shows Territorials with Long Lee-Metford or (much more likely) Lee-Enfield .303 rifles in 1911.


Added by Chris on 10 January 2008
Gosh! My photos are unworthy of such scholarship, but thanks everyone. Great stuff. The bullets I found were not cased - they were lead - a bit deformed as if they had struck a hard target. The rifles in picture #1732 look like SMLE, in use up to WWII, when the Enfield No 4 was issued. The number 4 was still in use in 1958. I used one when I was chosen to help to keep the Russian hordes at bey. Thats why this is not in Russian.
Added by Sandy on 11 January 2008
Hi Sandy

The rifles in that pic are much too long to be SMLEs. You'll also notice that the barrel protrudes well beyond the woodwork with the foresight at the end whereas the SMLE had a distinctive blunt cap that had a bayonet lug on the bottom and protected foresight on top. It's hard (impossible?) to tell which variant of the long Lee they are from the photo on the web. Thank you for staving off the Red Hordes BTW! :- )

Chris
Added by Chris on 24 April 2008
Aye, I used to dig out many a bullet from the sand at the north end and find the odd casing at the south. Some lead but a lot of brassy/copper heads usually.That was late 60's, great fun when you where young.
Added by Leslie Miller on 24 January 2010
My uncle John tells me that this feature used to be known as the "Bullseye" because of its shooting history.
Added by Sandy Windwick on 06 November 2010
There were a few carbines among the weapons used for arms drill when I was a member of the Army Cadet Force in Stromness in the late 1940s. Can't remember if they were Martini-Henrys, but it's more than likely. Their relative shortness and lightness made them popular with the smaller boys.
Added by Ian Hourston on 08 November 2010
<< back

Birsay

Old Twatt signInformation board at Marwick HeadAnother fine day in StromnessKirbuster Farm?Brough of Birsay on a wild weekendMarwick Head from the BayMystery groupBirsay Postman John H ComloquoyInside the Click Mill. Birsay, 2019Click Mill, Birsay 2019